tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-835218475794207821.post3205224921340724362..comments2024-02-08T04:20:25.937-06:00Comments on Enlightenment For No One: What are we looking for?Maury Leehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15069923174216911346noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-835218475794207821.post-33941569354057056732010-12-09T10:45:30.018-06:002010-12-09T10:45:30.018-06:00Hi Maury, thanks for replying. Good and thoughtful...Hi Maury, thanks for replying. Good and thoughtful comments there.<br /><br />The best guess I can make is that enlightenment is best seen as a process, that of the light dispelling darkness, rather than as a final state in its own right. <br /><br />Having said that, I think most people on the spiritual path (me included) are kept motivated by what they [I]don't [/I]want - i.e. the constraints and miseries of their current "unenlightened" life as they experience it - at least as much as by what they think the final goal is if it exists. <br /><br />Barry apparently recognised this when he wrote a book called "Freeing Yourself from Unhappiness" in the mid-80's.<br /><br />BTW, I think Barry, whose meetings in London I attended in 1987, was an penetrating, *incisive but flawed teacher - in particular in the mid-80's he seemed to have become obsessed with a prophecy about the world comming to an end as a result of a holocaust triggered by a global media frenzy. <br /><br />Twenty-five years on I honestly can't see that happening, the papers in the UK are mostly as dull, bland and obsessed with celebrity trivia as ever and a long way from any "frenzy" (and the New York Times is apparently even duller).<br /><br />Best,<br /><br />Graham .<br /><br />* Someone else I knew who attended the same emeetings described him as being like a diamond - very sharp, clear and bright but he thought Barry still had some deep stress he hadn't dealt with.Graham58noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-835218475794207821.post-9337534440806832992010-12-01T19:19:47.988-06:002010-12-01T19:19:47.988-06:00Graham, Don't mind you posting a long comment....Graham, Don't mind you posting a long comment. This is for discussion, and there hasn't been much going on. <br /><br />Regarding the Barry Long comment: I find it to be rather confusing. There are some excellent statements, and then some that seem incongruous. <br /><br />BTW, I have some of Barry Long's books. <br /><br />There is only the eternal now. However, we humans have experience, and experience creates time. We need to deal with it. <br /><br />That being said, there are levels of consciousness, and we do become more "enlightened" as time goes by, assuming we make a little effort and do, in fact, learn from our experiences. <br /><br />As we emerge from ignorance and darkness into the light, we do grow and see more clearly. This is gradual. There are sudden epiphanies as well. Different strokes for different folks. All unique! <br /><br />Enlightenment as commonly described, does occur at a certain level. But even this is confusing, because enlightenment is defined differently by different masters, or not defined at all, leaving everyone in the dark as to what it is. <br /><br />There are silly arguments about enlightenment as well, for example, some say the enlightened will never say they are enlightened, yet the Buddha told people he was. <br /><br />The clearest thing one can actually say about enlightenment overall is that it is ill defined, arbitrarily described, and therefore a very confusing mess in which most simply get lost. <br /><br />However, this is perfect. It could not be any other way. The one who will put no head above his own, and yet be willing to be open minded and listen, will find it in the end.Maury Leehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15069923174216911346noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-835218475794207821.post-11813495577913486892010-12-01T10:08:10.564-06:002010-12-01T10:08:10.564-06:00Here's Barry's actual journal entry. Not o...Here's Barry's actual journal entry. Not only does it correct any misunderstandings stemming from my comments on it (which probably weren't very accurate) but it's a worthwhile read in its own right.<br /><br />I've done it in several bits because it wouldn't go through on its own;<br /><br />[B]From Barry Long's Journal Number Three, pp. 142-4[/B]<br /><br />Questioner; You are saying that in life we become slowly more and more conscious, but is that true? Because if that is true I wonder why I heard so many people speak of something they call "sudden enlightenment". <br /><br />Barry: Sudden enlightenment?<br /><br />Questioner: That is the term used.<br /><br />Barry: What a load of old bullshit!<br /><br />The only thing that can be enlightened is ignorance. When I'm no longer ignorant there is no enlightenment, is there?<br /><br />No, there is no sudden enlightenment. That is a notion put about by people confused by eastern masters who cannot teach the western mind.<br /><br />All enlightenment happens in ignorance. All enlightenment happens in darkness.<br /><br />There are enlightening realisations in which the darkness or ignorance in you suddenly disappears and there's more light and clarity. For enlightenment means I have clarity of mind and I can see anything I need to see that's enlightening. But I don't suddenly get enlightened and lose all my ignorance, all at once, in a flash.Graham58noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-835218475794207821.post-82855442579734184552010-12-01T10:06:37.334-06:002010-12-01T10:06:37.334-06:00Here's Barry's actual journal entry. Not o...Here's Barry's actual journal entry. Not only does it correct any misunderstandings stemming from my comments on it (which probably weren't very accurate) but it's a worthwhile read in its own right;<br /><br />[B]From Barry Long's Journal Number Three, pp. 142-4[/B]<br /><br />Questioner; You are saying that in life we become slowly more and more conscious, but is that true? Because if that is true I wonder why I heard so many people speak of something they call "sudden enlightenment". <br /><br />Barry: Sudden enlightenment?<br /><br />Questioner: That is the term used.<br /><br />Barry: What a load of old bullshit!<br /><br />The only thing that can be enlightened is ignorance. When I'm no longer ignorant there is no enlightenment, is there?<br /><br />No, there is no sudden enlightenment. That is a notion put about by people confused by eastern masters who cannot teach the western mind.<br /><br />All enlightenment happens in ignorance. All enlightenment happens in darkness.<br /><br />There are enlightening realisations in which the darkness or ignorance in you suddenly disappears and there's more light and clarity. For enlightenment means I have clarity of mind and I can see anything I need to see that's enlightening. But I don't suddenly get enlightened and lose all my ignorance, all at once, in a flash.<br /><br />Any master will tell you, or should tell you, that enlightenment is now. I am enlightened now. I can't be enlightened yesterday. Enlightenment is now.<br /><br />You could never celebrate my 'enlightenment day'. How could you? For I am enlightened now. And you are enlightened now if you will only see that everything is now. But if you have any past at all to celebrate, and you really believe in it, you can't be enlightened - you've attached to the past. Enlightenment is now.<br /><br />To say 'I am enlightened' means that I am enlightened of the burden of the past.<br /><br />You won't get the enlightenment you're looking for. Why not? Because you're looking for some notion someone put into you in the past. If you think about something you're attached to it. So you'll think enlightenment is in the future or someone was enlightened in the past. And that's attachment to the future and past.<br /><br />But enlightenment is now!<br /><br />What prevents you from being enlightened now? - the person. For there cannot be any enlightened person. The person is attached to its future, all its dreams and all its yesterdays. The person is continuously moving between the future and the past. All the things you think about are the things you're attached to.<br /><br /><br /><br />The thinking person gets in the way of enlightenment. And interferes with the field of intelligence, for anyone who thinks is not intelligent. He is clever and smart, but not intelligent. For it is not intelligent to think unless I have to think; for example to remember a telephone number. How much time today did you spend having to think? Probably only a few minutes. And what was your brain doing the rest of the time? thinking without need, denying your enlightenment, cutting across your field of intelligence, and leaving me. Stay with me and you can't think.Graham58noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-835218475794207821.post-61290773799394577692010-11-02T18:33:03.424-05:002010-11-02T18:33:03.424-05:00Graham, Thanks for dropping by. Thanks for taking ...Graham, Thanks for dropping by. Thanks for taking the time to comment. <br /><br />Saying that "looking is the problem" seems to me poor logic. If there is a problem for someone, they are responsible to solve it. <br /><br />In the end, you find that you had it all the time, but until you look, you will never figure that out. <br /><br />Typically, only seekers find, those that don't rarely do.Maury Leehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15069923174216911346noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-835218475794207821.post-41549043266998885222010-11-02T12:23:18.677-05:002010-11-02T12:23:18.677-05:00Good blog Maury. I found you from Eddie Traversa&#...Good blog Maury. I found you from Eddie Traversa's webpage where you'd posted a comment.<br /><br />Just one thing though. Isn't it the "looking for that's the problem in the first place?"<br /><br />I'm told so by another teacher anyway (Barry Long, whose meetings I attended once).<br /><br />Best,<br /><br />Graham .Graham58noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-835218475794207821.post-40098840398693702072010-11-01T05:23:14.514-05:002010-11-01T05:23:14.514-05:00You are always more than kind! Your site "not...You are always more than kind! Your site "nothing exists despite appearances" says in a single statement what I take 10 paragraphs to say. <br /><br />You have a great day!Maury Leehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15069923174216911346noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-835218475794207821.post-64155966102806805772010-11-01T01:49:32.848-05:002010-11-01T01:49:32.848-05:00Good one Maury. In the knowledgeble, experiential,...Good one Maury. In the knowledgeble, experiential, and absolute sense!No One In Particularhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13465987207757191972noreply@blogger.com